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Post by good4nothin on Sept 22, 2019 12:43:48 GMT -5
Cortisone injections seem to be a popular treatment now, for arthritic joint pain. You might have heard that steroids can cause bone loss. But you also might have heard that the cortisone injected into joints does not enter the bloodstream, and therefore won't cause bone loss.
But you also might have heard that that is wrong, and cortisone injected into joints can in fact cause serious bone loss.
My guess is the drug industry has once again spread false information about one of its products being safe.
I know someone, Elise, who has severe low back pain and needs an extremely high dose of morphine. And she has been getting epidurals (cortisone injections) for about 8 years, about 3 times a year. She has severe osteoporosis.
The pain has gotten so bad that Elise decided to have spinal fusion surgery. However, the surgeon said her bones are too weak.
There is another kind of surgery she might be able to get, where they remove bone splinters from the joint. However, the insurance company said she first has to get another epidural.
I talked to Elise about cortisone injections causing bone loss. She has always had a very healthy lifestyle -- exercise and natural diet -- and there is no osteoporosis in her family. She is about 70 years old. Eight years ago, she had some osteoporosis, like many older women, but it was not severe.
She somehow got a broken tailbone, which originally caused her to see the pain management doctor. And they started the cortisone injections.
If they never gave her cortisone, would she have severe osteoporosis today? My guess is that she would not.
I told her I am not sure of any of this, but she agreed it all seems to make sense. I would like her to stop getting the injections. But I'm afraid the pain management doctor will deny that cortisone injections could possibly cause bone loss.
Like I said, I suspect the drug industry has been pushing these epidurals and saying they are perfectly safe. Even though there is research showing they can cause rapid bone loss.
If Elise stops these injections, maybe her bones will start to recover.
What do you think?
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Post by joymarty on Sept 22, 2019 14:18:45 GMT -5
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Post by good4nothin on Sept 22, 2019 18:28:55 GMT -5
But I can't understand why they doctors never said anything about possible side effects. Or why Elise never thought to ask them.
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Post by joymarty on Sept 22, 2019 18:33:39 GMT -5
But I can't understand why they doctors never said anything about possible side effects. Or why Elise never thought to ask them. Same reason doctors push all the drugs they do. I am so angry about the ruptured tendons my daughter lives with from that deadly Cipro.... A few may not end up with horrible side effects and so many do. I have NOT met a drug that does NOT have a sheet of possible s/e. Patients have to educate themselves. And decide if the gamble is worth it all. There is a world of alternative therapies at our fingertips.
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Post by good4nothin on Oct 15, 2019 13:52:23 GMT -5
But I can't understand why they doctors never said anything about possible side effects. Or why Elise never thought to ask them. I saw Elsie yesterday, and she told me what happened at a recent appointment at the pain clinic. She asked the doctor if cortisone injections could possibly cause osteoporosis, or make it worse. The doctor said "absolutely!" So Elsie asked the doctor why they never told her about this. The doctor said "because you never asked." Well I don't think that's fair at all! They didn't mention this very important side effect, just because Elsie didn't happen to ask about it. She didn't ask about it because she didn't know. She doesn't have a computer and doesn't look things up the way I do. She trusted the pain clinic doctors. They should have told her that cortisone injections cause osteoporosis, and let her make the decision. Instead, THEY decided the short term pain relief was worth the devastating long term results.
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Post by Bob on Oct 16, 2019 13:11:52 GMT -5
My wife was told she needed cortisone injections for pain down her leg due to problems in L4/L5 in her spine. What a waste of time/money. Such a racket for the doctor, who'd have a full waiting room on "injection" day. Bills to the insurance company were huge. The cortisone never did a bit of good; my wife needed a spinal fusion (which was successful in solving the leg pain issue).
Two years later, same thing but with her right knee. First thing the new doctor wanted to do was treat it with cortisone injections. Problem was (as we found out) she had virtually no cartilage, so all the cortisone in the world wasn't going to help (and it didn't). She needed a knee replacement.
I know cortisone can help for some inflammatory conditions, but using it more than twice in a year was not recommended by one of her doctors.
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Post by joymarty on Oct 16, 2019 13:40:12 GMT -5
People gotta wise up and learn to live with some pain and there are many otc pain relievers we can work with. I stay out of doc's offices as I know what they are going to want to do.
I live with trochanter bursitis on right side from hip replacement mess and I know a doc would go right to the steroids and I won't go there. SO I live with it and waxes and wanes and then feels better once iburprofen kicks in. And depends on how I sit too.
And on the no cartilage, one of our doctors here talks about this all the time and as long as a person can bend the knee and walk, there is cartilage there...Learn to work with that issue too...replacement of joints just opens up more pandora boxes. And more arthritis to the body. A vicious cycle.
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Post by good4nothin on Oct 16, 2019 14:56:13 GMT -5
My wife was told she needed cortisone injections for pain down her leg due to problems in L4/L5 in her spine. What a waste of time/money. Such a racket for the doctor, who'd have a full waiting room on "injection" day. Bills to the insurance company were huge. The cortisone never did a bit of good; my wife needed a spinal fusion (which was successful in solving the leg pain issue). Two years later, same thing but with her right knee. First thing the new doctor wanted to do was treat it with cortisone injections. Problem was (as we found out) she had virtually no cartilage, so all the cortisone in the world wasn't going to help (and it didn't). She needed a knee replacement. I know cortisone can help for some inflammatory conditions, but using it more than twice in a year was not recommended by one of her doctors. Cortisone, whether oral or injected, causes many serious problems. Doctors should inform patients of the risks, so they can make their own decision. Elsie's pain doctor decided for her that brief temporary pain relief was more important than long term health of her bones and joints. I have told Elsie that walking as much as possible, every day, will be very helpful. She knew that already, fortunately, since her doctors never mentioned weight-bearing exercise. Elsie needs spinal fusion surgery, because of fractures resulting from osteoporosis. But she can't get the surgery, because her bones are extremely thin and fragile. Now that she knows her osteoporosis was caused, or made much worse, by cortisone, she will not get any more of the injections. I am hoping her bones will start to get stronger. This kind of thing makes me VERY angry. And cortisone is certainly not the only harmful drug that is being over-used.
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Post by joymarty on Oct 16, 2019 22:38:34 GMT -5
G4N, why not help your friend re: osteoporosis with Strontium, Magnesium and D3/K2. There is a lot of info on all these related to this dread loss of bones.
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Post by nkat on Oct 17, 2019 9:41:28 GMT -5
I would never take those injections.
Nkat
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Post by good4nothin on Oct 17, 2019 12:05:31 GMT -5
I would never take those injections. Nkat I wouldn't either. And if a doctor had ever suggested them to me, I would have done some reading first. But Elsie was too trusting. Very often when I tell people I read something online, they tell me you can't trust everything on the internet. Well duh. What they don't realize is you can't trust everything medical doctors say either. This doctor was giving Elsie cortisone shots for 8 years, knowing they cause or worsen osteoporosis, and knowing Elsie had osteoporosis and that is was getting very bad. And right before I told Elsie about all this, her doctor was planning to give her another shot. Even though she had just been rejected for spinal fusion surgery because of fragile bones.
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Post by joymarty on Oct 17, 2019 13:11:27 GMT -5
I have a 93 yr old friend who is not on a computer but reads reads alternative info and has a big book she goes to when a doc hands her a script. She deals with lots of OA but takes a lot of supplements and these could be saving her. She's got a good mind, but hearing is horrible from years of Midol when she was young.
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Post by Drifter on Oct 17, 2019 18:23:32 GMT -5
I had one cortisone shot in my foot many years ago. The doctor asked if I wanted a numbing shot before the cortisone shot. Told him no, since I had so much pain I wouldn't feel the shot anyway. In a weeks time, all pain subsided. Haven't had any pain since then.
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Post by good4nothin on Oct 17, 2019 19:04:11 GMT -5
I had one cortisone shot in my foot many years ago. The doctor asked if I wanted a numbing shot before the cortisone shot. Told him no, since I had so much pain I wouldn't feel the shot anyway. In a weeks time, all pain subsided. Haven't had any pain since then. And what does that prove? That cortisone shots cured whatever was wrong with your foot? And we are then supposed to assume cortisone shots actually repair the damage that causes pain, rather than just temporarily dulling pain? It's hard to figure out what you are saying. The original post was supposed to be about the dangerous side effects of cortisone shots, and how doctors don't always warn their patients.
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Post by Drifter on Oct 17, 2019 19:36:32 GMT -5
I had one cortisone shot in my foot many years ago. The doctor asked if I wanted a numbing shot before the cortisone shot. Told him no, since I had so much pain I wouldn't feel the shot anyway. In a weeks time, all pain subsided. Haven't had any pain since then. And what does that prove? That cortisone shots cured whatever was wrong with your foot? And we are then supposed to assume cortisone shots actually repair the damage that causes pain, rather than just temporarily dulling pain? It's hard to figure out what you are saying. The original post was supposed to be about the dangerous side effects of cortisone shots, and how doctors don't always warn their patients. What does that prove? It proves, it helped my pain with only receiving one shot of cortisone. I had no side effects from it. So, because I'm not agreeing with you that this shot is dangerous, in your opinion, that what I had to share, that worked for me, bothered you? Pffffft!
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