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Post by Fireheart on May 1, 2019 17:52:59 GMT -5
WORSHIP 1. the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration The point is well taken Fireheart however, insofar as my perception of Nature as an entity trying to comprehend itself necessarily limits that same entity...it cannot qualify as a deity and therefore I cannot possibly worship same. Semantics is a fun game, donchathink?
It's kind of like my minor tiff with Chinadoll. She considers Buddhism a religion. However, inasmuch as that philosophy admits to no deity, it can't be considered a religion....n'est-ce pas
re·li·gion /rəˈlijən/ noun the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods
It says "especially a personal God or gods" ...not that it is required. Also, if you read further below the definition that you quoted, it also says: "a particular system of faith and worship" Also, yet a definition from another source says: "Religion is a cultural system of designated behaviors and practices, morals, worldviews, texts, sanctified places, prophecies, ethics, or organizations, that relates humanity to supernatural, transcendental, or spiritual elements. However, there is no scholarly consensus over what precisely constitutes a religion." So, in reality, what constitutes a religion varies...and beyond the basics, is a matter of personal opinion/belief/perception.I find that quite fitting, being that religion IS very personal...and who am I or you to try to destroy someone's view of what they consider to be their religion? Does it take anything away from you for me, Chinadoll or anyone else to have a different perspective on this? Do our different perspectives harm you in any way? Then why does it bother you so much? Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing... I'm discussing. I just don't see any point to debating someone else's view of religion when it is all a matter of perspective and there is no good and no advancement in knowledge to come from it. Live & let live. So as ye harm none, do what ye will.
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Post by keith on May 2, 2019 7:24:48 GMT -5
Well, I see you have concluded that I'm hostile. That's too bad...I was just playing and had hoped you'd understand that. So much for comprehending you. I get it...see you around.
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Post by Fireheart on May 2, 2019 10:41:49 GMT -5
Well, I see you have concluded that I'm hostile. That's too bad...I was just playing and had hoped you'd understand that. So much for comprehending you. I get it...see you around. I in no way said that you were hostile. I was simply stating my views as you did yours. I even said, "I'm not arguing... I'm discussing."
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Post by keith on May 2, 2019 12:09:05 GMT -5
Well, I see you have concluded that I'm hostile. That's too bad...I was just playing and had hoped you'd understand that. So much for comprehending you. I get it...see you around. I in no way said that you were hostile. I was simply stating my views as you did yours. I even said, "I'm not arguing... I'm discussing." OK.
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Post by keith on May 2, 2019 12:38:18 GMT -5
rception.I find that quite fitting, being that religion IS very personal...and who am I or you to try to destroy someone's view of what they consider to be their religion? Does it take anything away from you for me, Chinadoll or anyone else to have a different perspective on this? Do our different perspectives harm you in any way? Then why does it bother you so much? Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing... I'm discussing. I just don't see any point to debating someone else's view of religion when it is all a matter of perspective and there is no good and no advancement in knowledge to come from it. Live & let live. So as ye harm none, do what ye Addendum to last post: Perhaps it was your choice of words that brought the term "Hostile" to mind. Like I said: I actually thought I was being lighthearted. But, to be serious for a moment: people are slaughtering each other across the globe over religion so your view that debating it has no point is somewhat obtuse in my opinion. But then, you are the "Administrator" so.....I'll just let the "Pointless" thread die as of now.
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Post by Fireheart on May 2, 2019 13:27:02 GMT -5
Actually, what I said was, ". I just don't see any point to debating someone else's VIEW of religion."
...as in what they view as a religion vs. a philosophy of life. Their view of what a religion is doesn't harm anyone.
As for me being "The Administrator', it doesn't matter one way or another. I post and debate just like any other person & expect others to do the same with me as they would any other member. Disagreeing with me doesn't mean you'll be banned or reprimanded in any way. We don't operate that way here. As long as the Terms of Service are followed, all is well.
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Post by keith on May 2, 2019 15:26:16 GMT -5
Whatever....thread's dead, i expect that pleases you. I will make no more entries here.
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Post by Fireheart on May 2, 2019 19:18:40 GMT -5
Whatever....thread's dead, i expect that pleases you. I will make no more entries here. Your choice.
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Post by smitty45 on May 3, 2019 17:23:31 GMT -5
I am Pagan. I worship nature (which is proven to exist) & I hate no one (my religion doesn't require me to). Well,, without the Sun,, we die,,, without Water,,, we die,,, without nature, we would not exist. You do have a very valid point in worshiping nature. Like me, in my spirituality,,, I need no building with a cross. In fact,,, the Cross is a pretty sick idol considering is was one of many ways the Romans dealt death long before Jesus. Christians pray to a cross, and Muslims pray to a rock,,, they make a trek to Mecca to get a chance to be close to the stone that's in the bottom corner of some weird thing that kind of looks like what they used in the movies Hellraiser, but on a gigantic scale.
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Post by notbob on May 5, 2019 13:45:44 GMT -5
I'd like to interject a few points. There is no such thing as a religious war. While religions may teach intolerance, it is those who seek riches and power who create wars. Religion is simply used as a recruitment tool and any intolerance taught by religions is the ally of power seekers. We are supposedly created with "free will," yet many who believe in scripture assume they have the right to judge others. In so doing, they pick and choose scriptures to support their judgments. For example: In the US, it's perfectly alright to legislate against anyone in the LGBT community, yet there is no legislation against adulterers, people who work on the Sabbath, people who lie, people who are greedy or gluttonous, etc. Jesus' message was "love." I fully ascribe to that message and do my best to live it daily. A question I often pose to Christians: What difference does it make whether or not one believes the stories in the Bible if one gets the message? tnthomas, you said, "Logic is man-made, and is consistent with evaluating man-made situations and things. I like logic, and I like Earthly going's on to conform to logic. " I disagree. Logic is certainly NOT man made. Two plus two equals four. Man didn't make that up. That would be truth whether or not man ever existed. Logic is logic and definitive answers born in logic are irrefutable. You also said, "Sure, faith can be flawed but logic is also flawed in regards to it's ability to examine the after-life. " Logic is not flawed. It has examined "the afterlife" and it concluded it no more exists than God himself. That said, "energy can neither be created nor destroyed." Heat is energy and when we die, heat is dispersed into the atmosphere. If left up to nature, our bodies would be left as food for a variety of animals, perpetuating the evolutionary cycle. What's left would fertilize the soil - again, perpetuating the evolutionary cycle. What could possibly be better than that as our purpose? I will say, I expect no more from religion than I expect from science. If scientists posed irrefutable proof that a deity created and controls everything, then I'd have no choice but to believe it. Science is continually looking for answers and the only answers science is willing to accept are those which can be proven through logic. When one scientist makes a claim, he/she has the entire scientific community to answer to and consequently, also must answer to the masses. Religions on the other hand, claim to have all the answers, but offer absolutely no logical proof of their claims. Instead they claim, one must have faith. Faith in what?...what someone else tells us? That's exactly why Trump maintains a 40% approval rating. All I ask for is proof whether it's science or religion.
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Post by keith on May 5, 2019 16:38:35 GMT -5
Religions on the other hand, claim to have all the answers, but offer absolutely no logical proof of their claims. Hi, I generally agree with all you've said here. I can't defend religion or science but I ask you to consider one view regarding logical evidence of a superior mechanism promoting our existence, survival, and future. I see Nature as that mechanism which has used, and continues to use, evolution as the tool for that purpose. We evolve from simple organisms to us....that, in itself is telling evidence, as I see it, of a guiding principle at work in our favor. You could say nature cannot directly interject herself in our development. This means she is limited which would disqualify her as any type of deity. However, consider natural interjections such as the Everest sized asteroid that extinguished the dinosaurs which were going nowhere on an evolutionary basis. That event, possibly engineered by nature....led to our rise. I see us as Nature trying to materialize on a physical level thus transcending her existence on a purely spiritual level. I know we are very poor potential Gods but so far...we're the only candidates. Based on the evidence...I recognize nature as our God.
I'm not interested in engaging in a long argument on this subject...been there done that. I've gained a certain amount of solace from these thoughts. I'm only trying to offer that to you or anyone else reading about them. I also appreciate the irony of me contradicting myself on the subject of this thread. I owe that to Fireheart and my own contemplation of the reasoning I was using in our discussion.
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Post by notbob on May 5, 2019 23:57:30 GMT -5
I worship nothing. In a general sense, I love everything. I'm not perfect. Neither is my love, but I refuse to hate. I am a firm believer in the Golden Rule, but from my point of view, the Golden Rule should extend throughout the Universe. I'm not a student of religions - rather, I am a homegrown student of philosophy. Religions never made any sense to me. I believe everything throughout the Universe is interconnected so everything should be treated with respect. We're interdependent. Evolution? Without question. We continuously witness it. I also believe that at least within humans, there is a kind of good and evil and the levels we have of one or the other vary greatly from one person to the next. I can't change that but I can control me, so there are some people who aren't allowed in my life. I don't hate them but I don't consider not liking them as a bad thing since I have a right to protect my own well being.
So that more or less sums up my position where religion is concerned. I just think everyone should try to understand all perspectives as much as possible - be kind, be accepting - or at least be tolerant.
I am fully aware others view things differently. I don't like it however when they attempt to impose their views on me. It's not something I do to others. I find it arrogant and disrespectful. As far as I'm concerned, people can and will believe whatever they choose. I can't change that either, nor do I try. I respect people's right to believe anything they want. That is also my right.
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Post by keith on May 6, 2019 12:37:41 GMT -5
I respect people's right to believe anything they want. That is also my right. Exactly. My "Anti religion" stance has been compromised but I still feel that personal spiritual belief systems are too subjective to involve a ritualized form of "worship". My "worshiping" consists of planting tomatoes and fathering children. I still feel we've outgrown the more "popular" forms of religion and that they now only serve to divide us. During the dark ages, without protective monasteries, Western civilization would have lost all it's literature and deeper wisdom but there's no chance of that being the case today. Wicca and Buddhism touch my soul but I can't subscribe to either. I guess I'm just not a joiner.
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Post by nkat on May 6, 2019 13:07:06 GMT -5
Did you not hear about the theory about Martians seeding life here on Earth causing Evolution.? This explains all the cave drawings and Earth drawings only visible from the sky.
Nkat
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Post by notbob on May 6, 2019 13:54:16 GMT -5
Did you not hear about the theory about Martians seeding life here on Earth causing Evolution.? This explains all the cave drawings and Earth drawings only visible from the sky. Nkat There is a lot of controversy about patterns seen only from the sky and cave drawings that look like flying saucers and "helmets." Just as I treat science and religion, I'll believe irrefutable proof. To date, there is only speculation. Evolution occurs throughout the Universe. The one constant that occurs everywhere is that everything changes. That's evolution.
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