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Post by notbob on Aug 25, 2019 3:38:44 GMT -5
My mistake. Lol...I read the story and then proceeded to type the wrong name. Oh well...when you think about it, what's the difference? I changed the title though - how's 'dat?
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Post by rebecca2013 on Aug 25, 2019 7:52:22 GMT -5
You best not tell Ziyi there is no Karma notbob !!!! Whoosh!! No I am Catholic and even I have seen a good deal of the results of Karmic power. Never say never
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Post by notbob on Aug 25, 2019 8:47:33 GMT -5
You best not tell Ziyi there is no Karma notbob !!!! Whoosh!! No I am Catholic and even I have seen a good deal of the results of Karmic power. Never say never With all due respects rebecca2013, they're all coincidences. We often see someone do something we think is bad, then turn around and "break a leg." We also see people who do something good and turn around and "win the lottery." ( I'm using metaphors) Far more often than not. someone does something good and nothing changes just as someone does something bad and nothing changes. What you've seen are coincidences and coincidences are extremely common. Believing in Karma is superstitious. I'm not at all superstitious. I am an atheist and I don't believe in deities or demons. Frankly, it makes no sense to me why anyone would. There's no proof of the existence of either. There are only unanswered questions. The same is true of karma. I've made a conscious choice to not believe anything of this sort without proof and no one has ever offered proof. You said, "never say never." I didn't say "never." For example: If scientists offered indisputable proof that "God" exists or that karma exists, I would have no choice but to believe it. I ask for no more from religion or superstition than I ask from science. No one can offer definitive proof of anything so I'll wait for a conclusion that can be proven. I doubt science will ever prove the existence of God or supernatural occurrences to be true according to religious or superstitious claims. The only answer I want is one that can be proven to be factual.
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Post by chinadoll1981 on Aug 25, 2019 9:04:05 GMT -5
You best not tell Ziyi there is no Karma notbob !!!! Whoosh!! No I am Catholic and even I have seen a good deal of the results of Karmic power. Never say never With all due respects rebecca2013 , they're all coincidences. We often see someone do something we think is bad, then turn around and "break a leg." We also see people who do something good and turn around and "win the lottery." ( I'm using metaphors) Far more often than not. someone does something good and nothing changes just as someone does something bad and nothing changes. What you've seen are coincidences and coincidences are extremely common. Believing in Karma is superstitious. I'm not at all superstitious. I am an atheist and I don't believe in deities or demons. Frankly, it makes no sense to me why anyone would. There's no proof of the existence of either. There are only unanswered questions. The same is true of karma. I've made a conscious choice to not believe anything of this sort without proof and no one has ever offered proof. You said, "never say never." I didn't say "never." For example: If scientists offered indisputable proof that "God" exists or that karma exists, I would have no choice but to believe it. I ask for no more from religion or superstition than I ask from science. No one can offer definitive proof of anything so I'll wait for a conclusion that can be proven. I doubt science will ever prove the existence of God or supernatural occurrences to be true according to religious or superstitious claims. The only answer I want is one that can be proven to be factual. It not just coincidence it not superstitious Mumbojumbo it is something as a Buddhist is real and a part of Samsara the cycle of birth death and rebirth it okay you not believe but just as you say you can’t prove it exists you also can’t prove to me it doesn’t I do not believe in Creator but Rebecca does and that okay her beliefs are based on same faith as my own each person ultimately has a belief or not but you can no say it no exist because you not believe.....that like closing eyes in front of me and say I disappear!!!!
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Post by joymarty on Aug 25, 2019 12:31:11 GMT -5
notbob, I hear you on it ALL. It took me about 60 yrs to finally get off the fence on believing in a deiety. All the brainwashing of religions of the world. And for what, there is NO PEACE in the world. All these religious wars still go on and on and on.
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Post by birdgal on Aug 25, 2019 13:21:23 GMT -5
For what? Power, control, money, and chaos instead of unity. So far that's been working.
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Post by tnthomas on Aug 25, 2019 13:21:52 GMT -5
Karma is not an external force, not a system of punishment or reward dealt out by a god. The concept is more accurately understood as a natural law similar to gravity. Buddhists believe we are in control of our ultimate fates. The problem is that most of us are ignorant of this, which causes suffering. The purpose of Buddhism is to take conscious control of our behaviour. Robed Tibetan monks at Little Tibet, Xiahe, Guangshu, China, turning huge prayer wheels mounted along a wall When prayer wheels are turned, the prayers written on them are sent out into the universe Moral habits The Buddha taught about karmic 'conditioning', which is a process by which a person's nature is shaped by their moral actions. Every action we take molds our characters for the future. Both positive and negative traits can become magnified over time as we fall into habits. All of these cause us to acquire karma. This shows why Buddhists place such importance on being mindful of every action they take. bbc.co.uk
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Post by joymarty on Aug 25, 2019 13:30:05 GMT -5
For what? Power, control, money, and chaos instead of unity. So far that's been working. I just believe there is so much Ignorance in world. Brainwashed populations. Many of the poorest are so religious and have no money.
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Post by birdgal on Aug 25, 2019 13:59:34 GMT -5
I agree! As long as there's the promise of life after life, and suffering here on Earth is only temporary, why work or hope for or even demand a better life right now? It's frustrating and sad. Religious folk visit these people and praise them for their faith and suffering. Then religious folk go home to their comfy homes and big meals. Sigh.
Other species get on with life. They care for their young, find shelter and food and don't bow down to or worship an invisible being.
They live for the here and now. All they want to do is survive today. They don't need to believe in Someone greater. They don't start wars or hate each other or mock others because of their beliefs.
And yet we call ourselves the Intelligent species. ???
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Post by notbob on Aug 25, 2019 14:30:47 GMT -5
With all due respects rebecca2013 , they're all coincidences. We often see someone do something we think is bad, then turn around and "break a leg." We also see people who do something good and turn around and "win the lottery." ( I'm using metaphors) Far more often than not. someone does something good and nothing changes just as someone does something bad and nothing changes. What you've seen are coincidences and coincidences are extremely common. Believing in Karma is superstitious. I'm not at all superstitious. I am an atheist and I don't believe in deities or demons. Frankly, it makes no sense to me why anyone would. There's no proof of the existence of either. There are only unanswered questions. The same is true of karma. I've made a conscious choice to not believe anything of this sort without proof and no one has ever offered proof. You said, "never say never." I didn't say "never." For example: If scientists offered indisputable proof that "God" exists or that karma exists, I would have no choice but to believe it. I ask for no more from religion or superstition than I ask from science. No one can offer definitive proof of anything so I'll wait for a conclusion that can be proven. I doubt science will ever prove the existence of God or supernatural occurrences to be true according to religious or superstitious claims. The only answer I want is one that can be proven to be factual. It not just coincidence it not superstitious Mumbojumbo it is something as a Buddhist is real and a part of Samsara the cycle of birth death and rebirth it okay you not believe but just as you say you can’t prove it exists you also can’t prove to me it doesn’t I do not believe in Creator but Rebecca does and that okay her beliefs are based on same faith as my own each person ultimately has a belief or not but you can no say it no exist because you not believe.....that like closing eyes in front of me and say I disappear!!!! chinadoll1981, you have misinterpreted what I was saying. You're claiming karma exists. I'm saying, I don't believe it. You say you don't believe in a "creator." Then who or what controls karma? I believe there is a scientific answer for EVERYTHING. We simply haven't learned all the answers - and we probably won't ever learn all the answers. I'm perfectly fine with that. As I said, the only answers I'm interested in are answers that can be proven. When it comes to supernatural beliefs (including karma), I don't believe any of it. I do however, believe that everything in our Universe and beyond (assuming there is a "beyond") is interconnected. My effect on the Universe is far less than the effect of the smallest of particles on me. Nonetheless, EVERYTHING that happens within our Universe has a minuscule effect on everything else.
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Post by notbob on Aug 25, 2019 14:32:07 GMT -5
With all due respects rebecca2013 , they're all coincidences. We often see someone do something we think is bad, then turn around and "break a leg." We also see people who do something good and turn around and "win the lottery." ( I'm using metaphors) Far more often than not. someone does something good and nothing changes just as someone does something bad and nothing changes. What you've seen are coincidences and coincidences are extremely common. Believing in Karma is superstitious. I'm not at all superstitious. I am an atheist and I don't believe in deities or demons. Frankly, it makes no sense to me why anyone would. There's no proof of the existence of either. There are only unanswered questions. The same is true of karma. I've made a conscious choice to not believe anything of this sort without proof and no one has ever offered proof. You said, "never say never." I didn't say "never." For example: If scientists offered indisputable proof that "God" exists or that karma exists, I would have no choice but to believe it. I ask for no more from religion or superstition than I ask from science. No one can offer definitive proof of anything so I'll wait for a conclusion that can be proven. I doubt science will ever prove the existence of God or supernatural occurrences to be true according to religious or superstitious claims. The only answer I want is one that can be proven to be factual. It not just coincidence it not superstitious Mumbojumbo it is something as a Buddhist is real and a part of Samsara the cycle of birth death and rebirth it okay you not believe but just as you say you can’t prove it exists you also can’t prove to me it doesn’t I do not believe in Creator but Rebecca does and that okay her beliefs are based on same faith as my own each person ultimately has a belief or not but you can no say it no exist because you not believe.....that like closing eyes in front of me and say I disappear!!!! Funny how we've strayed away from the post. I'm as much to blame as anyone.
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Post by notbob on Aug 25, 2019 15:02:10 GMT -5
notbob, I hear you on it ALL. It took me about 60 yrs to finally get off the fence on believing in a deiety. All the brainwashing of religions of the world. And for what, there is NO PEACE in the world. All these religious wars still go on and on and on. I've been an atheist since childhood. I don't mean to be contrary but I have come to believe "religious wars" don't exist. Virtually all religions preach love. Since that is the case, why are Christians fighting against Muslims. Why are Muslims against Christians and Jews, etc.? In my opinion, it's because of powerful and influential people using religion as a recruitment tool for waging war in order to gain more power. Look at what Trump has done to Evangelicals. And why did the US ever set up operations in Israel? Because of humanitarian reasons as claimed by US leaders? Hardly. We're in the Middle East to protect the business interests of the oil industry - an industry that paid for political campaigns and lobbying perks so we'd protect their interests. With Netanyahu's behavior, why would anyone believe he's a good Jew? Why would anyone believe Ali Khamenei of Iran wants nuclear weapons to protect his religion? These people seek power and they expect the rest of us to fight for them based on the tools they use for recruitment of forces which is all too often religion. I haven't a clue whether or not Jesus existed or if he's a fairy tale. I couldn't care less, but based on what he preached (whether or not the stories are truth or fictional), he preached love and acceptance. Why then are so many Christians so hateful? Because of the influences of greedy leaders looking for ways to gain power financially which will increase their level of influence. We, as a society are controlled by controllers. Here in the US, it's because we've bought into what powerful people from legislators to preachers have preached. Religion is used as a recruitment tool. Are some of these leaders devoted to their religion? Most likely yes, but that doesn't stop them from seeking power using any means possible which all too often is based around their follower's religious beliefs.
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Post by notbob on Aug 25, 2019 15:06:52 GMT -5
Karma is not an external force, not a system of punishment or reward dealt out by a god. The concept is more accurately understood as a natural law similar to gravity. Buddhists believe we are in control of our ultimate fates. The problem is that most of us are ignorant of this, which causes suffering. The purpose of Buddhism is to take conscious control of our behaviour. Robed Tibetan monks at Little Tibet, Xiahe, Guangshu, China, turning huge prayer wheels mounted along a wall When prayer wheels are turned, the prayers written on them are sent out into the universe Moral habits The Buddha taught about karmic 'conditioning', which is a process by which a person's nature is shaped by their moral actions. Every action we take molds our characters for the future. Both positive and negative traits can become magnified over time as we fall into habits. All of these cause us to acquire karma. This shows why Buddhists place such importance on being mindful of every action they take. bbc.co.uk
Well...I could have lived the life of a saint and still get run over by a car or shot by a mass murderer. Karma? Hardly. Ironic? Yes.
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Post by tnthomas on Aug 25, 2019 15:22:24 GMT -5
Well...I could have lived the life of a saint and still get run over by a car or shot by a mass murderer. Karma? Hardly. Ironic? Yes. Yes, absolutely. What we can not know is what the future would hold for you.
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Post by birdgal on Aug 25, 2019 16:38:28 GMT -5
Notbob, well said! All of it. Your thoughtful and respectful replies about religion, the power and influence it can have on politics and policies, is a breath of fresh air.
Instead of being used as an olive branch evil people, including politicians, use it as a weapon.
The thing in the WH uses and abuses religion.
Imagine?
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