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Post by Sunkist on Jul 11, 2021 12:44:29 GMT -5
Canada is a multicultural country, and immigrants who need it are given free English training classes (and/or French classes, if they settle in Quebec Province). In the USA, much like in Canada, immigrants' children and grandchildren usually become naturally fluent in English, even if their mother tongue might still be spoken at home. In USA, not necessarily. I lived in one area where some of the population were immigrants but many families had lived there for multiple generations- not only did none of the adults speak English, the local school (I think covered grades 5-8) stated only 40% of the students were fluent in English. And there were free ESL courses at a local community center. |
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Post by formerlyme on Jul 11, 2021 14:45:58 GMT -5
Canada is a multicultural country, and immigrants who need it are given free English training classes (and/or French classes, if they settle in Quebec Province). In the USA, much like in Canada, immigrants' children and grandchildren usually become naturally fluent in English, even if their mother tongue might still be spoken at home. In USA, not necessarily. I lived in one area where some of the population were immigrants but many families had lived there for multiple generations- not only did none of the adults speak English, the local school (I think covered grades 5-8) stated only 40% of the students were fluent in English. And there were free ESL courses at a local community center. That's really sad, Sunkist!  In Canada, an immigrant can't become a full-fledged citizen (with all it's rights and privileges) without being able to communicate in one of the official languages (English or French). That's why well-organized English (or French) classes are available for free to immigrants, and any who aspire to become Canadian citizens are well-advised to take the language training. |
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Post by notbob on Jul 12, 2021 3:03:33 GMT -5
There is truth is what you say, but it is our differences we should be celebrating. Thank goodness we're not all the same. Go into "Chinatown" in any large city and you'll find numerous people who struggle with English...if they can speak it at all. Most of us will never experience Chinese culture first hand, but we can get a sampling of it through them. It's not "them vs us." They ARE us. They are exactly what this country is about. There is no constitutional mandate for a standardized language and in fact, it wasn't even English speaking people who first settled here. That says nothing about Native American languages. I disagree- on a number of points. From my POV, language isn't the main issue. People who make it a point of "practicing their own cultures" DO make it "Us Vs. Them." It's about excluding everybody who isn't in their particular group. It's good for individuals to retain various traditions, customs, etc., that are important to them, but the emphasis on "cultures" divides people. From what I've seen/heard/experienced, more depends on location than time-frame. When I was in school, I was taught about "the Melting Pot," decades later so was the oldest of my kids. As for language, though, individuals who are fluent in both Spanish and English (and not immigrants), immediately start speaking Spanish when a non-Hispanic person is nearby. If that's not exclusion, what else is it?! You said, "People who make it a point of "practicing their own cultures" DO make it "Us Vs. Them." People value their ancestry, their histories, and their cultures. When they immigrate to the US, they bring those things with them. How can anyone possibly expect them to not practice what they've known all their lives and "become Americans." "They" don't make it us vs them. People who can't, or won't accept that we are not all the same make it us vs them. What about black culture? Very few black practice African culture anymore. They've developed their own culture and much of it is based on their history in the US. That IS American culture - certainly not entirely, but blacks have brought who they are to the table and I can guarantee, it's very different from what whites or Hispanics or Chinese, etc. bring to the table. Maybe we should ban polkas. African-Americans have had a tremendous influence on our music and art, and much more, but society has not treated them kindly. I would think a better way to approach our differences is to live and let live. That's what freedom is, and that's the primary reason people come here. Personally, I love all the cultural differences. Where bilingual people who speak their native tongue when someone is around who they believe won't understand what they're saying is concerned, it's none of your business what they're saying. Maybe they simply want to have a private conversation. Who cares? Germans, Norwegians, Iraqis, Chinese, Russians, etc., might do the same thing...or two Americans who've learned the same foreign language might do that as well for privacy's sake. You said, "It's about excluding everybody who isn't in their particular group." If I were part of a group of friends who paint pictures, I'm not sure I'd want performance artists included in the group. If I were in a group of friends who enjoyed playing Middle Eastern music, I'm sure we wouldn't want someone in the group who brings rap music to the table. That doesn't take anything away from performance artists or rap artists. They probably wouldn't want painters or Middle Eastern musicians to be part of their groups. Exclusion is when people of a certain group won't accept others from different groups. That's something that takes place throughout our society whether it's music, art, social status, pot smokers, golfers, card players, naturalists, politicians, potters, cooks, Baptists, etc. There's nothing wrong with forming groups of like-minded people. We can all learn from our differences. We are one of the very few countries that has people from every corner of the world. That's to be celebrated and embraced. That's what makes up America and Americans. There's no way we should expect anyone to conform to a set standard, because there is no set standard - and there shouldn't be. Who would set the standard...you? And what would that standard entail? Are we going to legislate standards outside of basic laws designed to protect people? Welcome to Nazi Germany. Having multiple cultures including languages enriches our country. It only divides when others can't accept them and what they bring to the table. You don't have to participate. That's my POV. |
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Post by nkat on Jul 12, 2021 9:48:22 GMT -5
No one is telling anyone not to honor their customs but they also have to honor the customs of their new country in which they chose to live.
Nkat
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Post by notbob on Jul 12, 2021 14:53:53 GMT -5
No one is telling anyone not to honor their customs but they also have to honor the customs of their new country in which they chose to live. Nkat Why? And...what are our customs other than maybe fireworks on the 4th, the big three professional team sports, and turkey on Thanksgiving? I'm a native born American and I'm really not aware of any specific "American" (US) customs. |
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Post by Sunkist on Jul 12, 2021 16:25:02 GMT -5
In USA, not necessarily. I lived in one area where some of the population were immigrants but many families had lived there for multiple generations- not only did none of the adults speak English, the local school (I think covered grades 5-8) stated only 40% of the students were fluent in English. And there were free ESL courses at a local community center. That's really sad, Sunkist ! In Canada, an immigrant can't become a full-fledged citizen (with all it's rights and privileges) without being able to communicate in one of the official languages (English or French). That's why well-organized English (or French) classes are available for free to immigrants, and any who aspire to become Canadian citizens are well-advised to take the language training. And I didn't think to add- if one of the main reasons people move to the U.S. is for opportunities, some don't seem to realize they're holding their children back by not expecting them to learn the language. |
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Post by nkat on Jul 12, 2021 16:33:16 GMT -5
No one is telling anyone not to honor their customs but they also have to honor the customs of their new country in which they chose to live. Nkat Why? And...what are our customs other than maybe fireworks on the 4th, the big three professional team sports, and turkey on Thanksgiving? I'm a native born American and I'm really not aware of any specific "American" (US) customs. We speak English that is one custom. We honor our deceased who died in the wars. We also incorporate the customs of those who settled here like the Christmas tree from the Germans. We have pork and sauerkraut on New Years. We have pulled British crackers at Christmas. We celebrate Easter. Everybody is Irish on St Patty’s Day. We eat food from all regions. We are a Melting Pot not sticking to our and only our customs of our nationalities, how boring! nkat |
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Post by Sunkist on Jul 12, 2021 17:06:15 GMT -5
Why? And...what are our customs other than maybe fireworks on the 4th, the big three professional team sports, and turkey on Thanksgiving? I'm a native born American and I'm really not aware of any specific "American" (US) customs. We speak English that is one custom. We honor our deceased who died in the wars. We also incorporate the customs of those who settled here like the Christmas tree. nkat What do you think of this (true story from the locale, a few years ago. Except the person who wrote it made an error- the coach was male): www.nationalreview.com/2017/03/high-school-kids-usa-themed-attire-basketball-game/ |
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Post by nkat on Jul 12, 2021 17:32:07 GMT -5
We all came from refugees. I am happy to see that people are glad to be living in the USA and showing pride in their country. If one is not happy here then leave! People are really getting crazy over what they feel might hurt someone’s feelings. These refugees chose to live here and that is the flag of their new country. That was a good article! nkat |
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Post by notbob on Jul 12, 2021 19:19:29 GMT -5
Why? And...what are our customs other than maybe fireworks on the 4th, the big three professional team sports, and turkey on Thanksgiving? I'm a native born American and I'm really not aware of any specific "American" (US) customs. We speak English that is one custom. We honor our deceased who died in the wars. We also incorporate the customs of those who settled here like the Christmas tree from the Germans. We have pork and sauerkraut on New Years. We have pulled British crackers at Christmas. We celebrate Easter. Everybody is Irish on St Patty’s Day. We eat food from all regions. We are a Melting Pot not sticking to our and only our customs of our nationalities, how boring! nkat Speaking English isn't an American "custom." It just happens to be the language most of us speak, and it originated in England. I suspect all countries honor those who died in wars - not an American custom. Lots of countries have Christmas trees. If it came from Germany, it's a German custom we adopted - not a uniquely American custom. Pork and sauerkraut on New Years is something I never heard of before. I doubt it originated in the US. Pulled British crackers at Christmas is another one I've never heard of and again, I doubt it originated in the US. Christians throughout the world celebrate Easter. That's not a custom we bring to the world. I'm sure that originated elsewhere, though Easter egg hunts might be American. Isn't St. Patty's Day an Irish custom? Maybe corned beef and cabbage is American? I don't know. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but the things you described, or at least most of those things came from foreign cultures. All cultures of the world have influenced American culture, but America doesn't have a lot of customs that would be considered American. Blues and Jazz originated here. Those genres were created here by our black citizens. They didn't come from Africa, though African culture probably influenced that development. Almost everyone in America has danced to a polka at some point in their lives, but that didn't originate here, and there are numerous styles of music that have the same tempo and similar style that you can dance the polka to including some Mariachi music and Zydeco. Baseball and football are uniquely American. Hot dogs are American. I'm sure there are more, but basically, American culture is a blend of all cultures brought here by immigrants. Here's a video clip that's sort of about language barriers - not necessarily relevant, but fun nonetheless. |
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Post by nkat on Jul 12, 2021 20:05:01 GMT -5
I said they come from other countries . We are a melting pot and enjoy all customs and do not stick with those of our nationality.. That is the American way to enjoy all customs!
You are argumentative.
Nkat
I saw those videos on YouTube.
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Post by notbob on Jul 13, 2021 1:26:07 GMT -5
I said they come from other countries . We are a melting pot and enjoy all customs and do not stick with those of our nationality.. That is the American way to enjoy all customs! You are argumentative. Nkat I saw those videos on YouTube. As a matter of fact, immigrants tend to stick with people of their nationality. I have no problem with that, yet you think everyone must learn English...and...you expect them to pay for their own lessons despite the fact that many of them work for poverty wages. If the government were to mandate that everyone must speak English, then the government should expect to cover the cost. The pot is calling the kettle black. I'm no more argumentative than you. We come from very different places, so we disagree on most things politically, socially and culturally. If we both enter a discussion, it's unlikely we'll find much common ground. |
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Post by nkat on Jul 13, 2021 10:38:28 GMT -5
I said they come from other countries . We are a melting pot and enjoy all customs and do not stick with those of our nationality.. That is the American way to enjoy all customs! You are argumentative. Nkat I saw those videos on YouTube. As a matter of fact, immigrants tend to stick with people of their nationality. I have no problem with that, yet you think everyone must learn English...and...you expect them to pay for their own lessons despite the fact that many of them work for poverty wages. If the government were to mandate that everyone must speak English, then the government should expect to cover the cost. The pot is calling the kettle black. I'm no more argumentative than you. We come from very different places, so we disagree on most things politically, socially and culturally. If we both enter a discussion, it's unlikely we'll find much common I guess we do come from different places, me up North and you in the middle. I always thought you lived in the New England states. I will just stay out of your posts. nkat |
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Post by helen on Jul 13, 2021 13:25:50 GMT -5
Unless one is pure native American, there are immigrants in your ancestry. They came to this country and brought not only their family and possessions but also their heart and soul AND allegiance. Some of today's immigrants seem to want to enjoy the advantages of living in America but still have allegiance to their country of birth.
IOW, if you choose to live and prosper here, your heart belongs here. JMHO
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Post by notbob on Jul 13, 2021 13:36:09 GMT -5
I guess we do come from different places, me up North and you in the middle. I always thought you lived in the New England states. I will just stay out of your posts. nkat That is entirely your choice - not my request. |
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