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Post by Drifter on Jul 1, 2021 12:18:33 GMT -5
nkat
What is the Official Language of the United StatesOn the eve of American independence in 1776, English was the most dominant language in the original 13 colonies that would form the United States of America, but many of the colonies’ residents also spoke French, German, and Dutch. Indeed, one reason that the founding fathers of the United States did not proclaim English as the official language of the new country was that they did not want to offend those who fought for independence but were not native English speakers. The founding fathers also did not believe that the English language needed any protection under the law.My grandparents came here from Germany. Sure, they eventually learned the English language, but mostly spoke in their native tongue between themselves, whether at home or out and about. My mother also was that way too. No different than other citizens of this County who are bilingual. Spanish is the number 2 language in this Country. I took Spanish in school. Nowadays, I can understand it being spoken better than speaking it fluently. On a rare occasion, we'll see Mexicans in a store speaking in their native tongue. I acknowledge them and smile, and will even help them with what they were trying to locate on a store shelf. They are appreciative of the help. It doesn't bother me what language a person chooses to speak. I find it interesting. We always find a way to communicate and get the point of the conversation across. It's just a way of accepting those deemed different from us (English speaking people) to grow and learn from!
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Post by notbob on Jul 1, 2021 13:18:53 GMT -5
NotBob, the Native Americans did not establish the United States. All people here need to learn a central language. English should be made our official language. All can still do their customs but everyone needs to communicate with one another in a country. We are the United States not the United Nations. Nkat I disagree. Unfortunately, we've pretty much bullied Native American languages away from Natives, just as we bullied their land and much of their culture away from them. In my opinion, that's a great loss. "Different times - different circumstances."
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Post by 2old on Jul 1, 2021 14:48:38 GMT -5
Most people migrating to the United States DO want to come here LEGALLY! They want to apply for temporary visas, then meet whatever requirements are for citizenship. Our current political clime is so divided, they will not fund added immigration judges/courts to handle the high influx of migrants. Some years ago, my wife assisted a Chinese couple gain citizenship. They were here on immigrant visas, took night classes, and she assisted them with language and test questions that might be on the quizzes. There was never any kickback about them coming here and applying for citizenship... and they didn't speak hardly a word of English upon arrival.
There are so many jobs that do use immigrant labor. (Much because they can pay the workers 'under the table' and not have to pay living wages.) Fruit and vegetable farming. Construction. Packing plants. These people will work hard at jobs "legal" residents won't do. They pay taxes. They purchase goods from local retailers. They assist in building our economy. They fight in our military in defense of the freedoms and liberties we enjoy... and they did not in their home countries. Why can't we support an immigration system that will see them apply for and achieve citizenship in a timely manner??
Do I believe immigrants should learn English? As much as is needed to be productive members of society. Our Indian neighbors, both now having attained their doctorates... one in microbiology and the other in entomology... can barely communicate in English. When they were having difficulty handling purchase and sale of a home, I assisted. Now, sadly, they have moved from our neighborhood and both are employed at the Harvard Medical Research Facility in Boston... she working on research about the effect of a society downing years of prescription drugs and how those drugs negatively affect the good bacteria in our digestive systems.
At some point in the future, the Earth will no longer be able to support the human population as it expands. In the meantime, we could do so much to extend the time the Earth can be a good home to ALL!! Why won't we address climate change? Why won't we address poverty in tyrannical governments?
An entire other discussion could be held re the immigrants and what they add to our economy and neighborhoods while billionaires employ thousands at below living wage and, themselves and their corporations, pay little or nothing in taxes to support our infrastructure, schools, etc.
I better quit before I upset too many.........
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Post by nkat on Jul 1, 2021 17:51:47 GMT -5
The point is all are welcome legally. They need to save their money, not give it to coyotes to sneak them in. Money is needed to start a good life.
2old we have so much poverty here in our country. Our elementary and middle schools students here get free breakfast plus free lunch while in school. Food stamps during the summer. Many are loosing their homes. Who is addressing this? I can only help so much, I like spending my millions elsewhere. Many foreigners working here would send their money home to their native economies and not spend it here. They are probably paid under the table so no tax paying. So NotBob, my people did not come over here and take land away from the Indians. Way way before my family’s time. That blame is on the Spanish, Dutch, French and English. So let their ancestors pony up.
Spanish speaking people are not the only ones coming here. No one seems to have a second audio or a TV station in their language, why not? Fair is fair.
Nkat
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Post by nkat on Jul 1, 2021 19:51:55 GMT -5
nkat
What is the Official Language of the United StatesOn the eve of American independence in 1776, English was the most dominant language in the original 13 colonies that would form the United States of America, but many of the colonies’ residents also spoke French, German, and Dutch. Indeed, one reason that the founding fathers of the United States did not proclaim English as the official language of the new country was that they did not want to offend those who fought for independence but were not native English speakers. The founding fathers also did not believe that the English language needed any protection under the law.My grandparents came here from Germany. Sure, they eventually learned the English language, but mostly spoke in their native tongue between themselves, whether at home or out and about. My mother also was that way too. No different than other citizens of this County who are bilingual. Spanish is the number 2 language in this Country. I took Spanish in school. Nowadays, I can understand it being spoken better than speaking it fluently. On a rare occasion, we'll see Mexicans in a store speaking in their native tongue. I acknowledge them and smile, and will even help them with what they were trying to locate on a store shelf. They are appreciative of the help. It doesn't bother me what language a person chooses to speak. I find it interesting. We always find a way to communicate and get the point of the conversation across. It's just a way of accepting those deemed different from us (English speaking people) to grow and learn from!
Drifter why is Spanish the second language? Isn’t there a quota for how many people are allowed in from each country? learning is a two way street. My gd is taking Spanish in high school. I took French which I thought was the prettiest language. She really wanted to take German. nkat
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Post by Drifter on Jul 1, 2021 20:38:24 GMT -5
nkat Spanish has been spoken in what is now the US since the 15th century, with the arrival of Spanish colonization in North America. 41 million people speak Spanish. It's said that by 2050, it will be the #1 language to speak. Good to hear you gd has taken up learning it. Perhaps she can teach you the language. Yes, French is a beautiful language. Can you still speak it? When visiting Canada, I loved listening to the French Canadian speak it. I wanted to take German but my mother pushed me to take Spanish.
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Post by nkat on Jul 1, 2021 23:24:44 GMT -5
nkat Spanish has been spoken in what is now the US since the 15th century, with the arrival of Spanish colonization in North America. 41 million people speak Spanish. It's said that by 2050, it will be the #1 language to speak. Good to hear you gd has taken up learning it. Perhaps she can teach you the language. Yes, French is a beautiful language. Can you still speak it? When visiting Canada, I loved listening to the French Canadian speak it. I wanted to take German but my mother pushed me to take Spanish. Heck no Drifter. Three years of it down the drain. We pushed my gd into Spanish also. When Spanish becomes the #1 language, I’ll be dead. Lol nkat
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Post by notbob on Jul 2, 2021 0:26:57 GMT -5
The point is all are welcome legally. They need to save their money, not give it to coyotes to sneak them in. Money is needed to start a good life. 2old we have so much poverty here in our country. Our elementary and middle schools students here get free breakfast plus free lunch while in school. Food stamps during the summer. Many are loosing their homes. Who is addressing this? I can only help so much, I like spending my millions elsewhere. Many foreigners working here would send their money home to their native economies and not spend it here. They are probably paid under the table so no tax paying. So NotBob, my people did not come over here and take land away from the Indians. Way way before my family’s time. That blame is on the Spanish, Dutch, French and English. So let their ancestors pony up. Spanish speaking people are not the only ones coming here. No one seems to have a second audio or a TV station in their language, why not? Fair is fair. Nkat C'mon nkat. I never said it was YOUR people that took land away from the Natives, but this country wouldn't be what it is had "our" ancestors not stolen it from Native Americans. Your family had it much easier than the homesteaders who claimed native land as their own. Different times - different conditions. Cable TV has broadcasts in Spanish. I believe satellite TV does too. The guy died who used to do it, but years ago, there were broadcasts in the UP of Michigan in Finnish - because there are a lot of Finns in the UP. There was no one in the broadcasting business who could speak Finnish and replace him, though Finnish is commonly spoken there. You're asking people who aren't in the business why there aren't Spanish broadcasts. I doubt any of us knows why the market hasn't demanded more Spanish broadcasts, but if you researched it, you might find out.
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Post by nkat on Jul 2, 2021 11:14:15 GMT -5
NotBob why would you even bring up the Indians when we are talking current day? My entire point was that no one is going to learn a common language if we coddle them with signs , 2nd audio, and a television station in their native tongue. I want to know why there are Spanish broadcasts?
Nkat
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Post by notbob on Jul 2, 2021 13:15:18 GMT -5
nkat ... It's simple...because there are Spanish speaking people living here who don't speak English. Do you have any idea how much it would cost to teach all non-English speaking people in the US to speak English? Neither do I, but the cost of providing classrooms, a variety of teachers who understand virtually every language of the world, print and disperse information and create a website about the availability of classes (in numerous languages), books, etc. won't come cheap. And...what percentage of those people will take advantage of the classes? If you expect people to learn English before showing up at our border, you're asking too much. Many of them haven't even finished high school. If you're expecting immigrants to pay for the classes, again, you're asking too much. We, the taxpayers will have to pay for them to learn English. Then it becomes a risk VS reward situation and if enrollment isn't very high, after spending a lot of money, we'll still be a multi-lingual country. There are areas of our country where Spanish is already the dominant language - places all along the southern border. I don't see it as a problem holding our country back from progress...so I don't see it as a problem. As Drifter said, 41 million people in the US currently speak Spanish and it's projected to be the dominant language in just 29 years. When that happens, should we mandate everyone speak Spanish? While Canada isn't problem-free with their high percentage of French-speaking people, they have accepted that they are primarily bi-lingual, and they do quite well. Their road signs are in both languages. I'll be dead before it happens, but if I were alive when the US becomes primarily Spanish-speaking, I would resist learning Spanish - no different from some people resisting learning English today. I expect you'd resist learning Spanish as well. See...we're just like them.
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Post by nkat on Jul 2, 2021 14:14:48 GMT -5
NotBob, isn’t that their problem to learn English not the taxpayers? How is Spanish. going to take over? Are they going to reproduce like rabbits? More countries speak English in the world then Spanish. Of course it is along the southern border, that is where they come in illegally. Texas seems to have a huge problem and want to build their own wall. Sorry but I am not happy with all these people coming in illegally, no matter where they come from. We would not have a country if all able men fled to other countries when the going got rough. I am a moderate, not a liberal, and do see the Republican point of view on this matter. Many of the people around me feel we need to close that border.
Nkat
Remember this is my opinion which I am entitled to like you are entitled to yours. If we all followed like sheep this board would be mighty boring.
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Post by notbob on Jul 2, 2021 15:24:42 GMT -5
NotBob, isn’t that their problem to learn English not the taxpayers? How is Spanish. going to take over? Are they going to reproduce like rabbits? More countries speak English in the world then Spanish. Of course it is along the southern border, that is where they come in illegally. Texas seems to have a huge problem and want to build their own wall. Sorry but I am not happy with all these people coming in illegally, no matter where they come from. We would not have a country if all able men fled to other countries when the going got rough. I am a moderate, not a liberal, and do see the Republican point of view on this matter. Many of the people around me feel we need to close that border. Nkat Remember this is my opinion which I am entitled to like you are entitled to yours. If we all followed like sheep this board would be mighty boring. Okay.
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Post by formerlyme on Jul 2, 2021 16:11:19 GMT -5
Canada is a multicultural country, and immigrants who need it are given free English training classes (and/or French classes, if they settle in Quebec Province). In the USA, much like in Canada, immigrants' children and grandchildren usually become naturally fluent in English, even if their mother tongue might still be spoken at home.
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Post by nkat on Jul 2, 2021 17:44:36 GMT -5
Kids do learn fast.
Nkat
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Post by Sunkist on Jul 11, 2021 12:41:29 GMT -5
And this is the problem. It is NOT new, but it's getting worse and worse BECAUSE of all the modern emphasis on 'multiculturalism' and 'diversity.' Instead of encouraging immigrants to become and be Americans, everybody's pressured to 'practice their own cultures' and 'learn about Differences.' Whomever came up with this idea should consider it another experiment that failed- in every possible way. Language is only a part of it- but it's an important part. There is truth is what you say, but it is our differences we should be celebrating. Thank goodness we're not all the same. Go into "Chinatown" in any large city and you'll find numerous people who struggle with English...if they can speak it at all. Most of us will never experience Chinese culture first hand, but we can get a sampling of it through them. It's not "them vs us." They ARE us. They are exactly what this country is about. There is no constitutional mandate for a standardized language and in fact, it wasn't even English speaking people who first settled here. That says nothing about Native American languages. I disagree- on a number of points. From my POV, language isn't the main issue. People who make it a point of "practicing their own cultures" DO make it "Us Vs. Them." It's about excluding everybody who isn't in their particular group. It's good for individuals to retain various traditions, customs, etc., that are important to them, but the emphasis on "cultures" divides people. From what I've seen/heard/experienced, more depends on location than time-frame. When I was in school, I was taught about "the Melting Pot," decades later so was the oldest of my kids. As for language, though, individuals who are fluent in both Spanish and English (and not immigrants), immediately start speaking Spanish when a non-Hispanic person is nearby. If that's not exclusion, what else is it?!
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