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Post by Sunkist on Jun 1, 2018 10:50:48 GMT -5
Where and when did all this racism begin? I see and hear it happening with both black and whites! I never grew up with racism. Read articles where the police are afraid of the blacks,why? What caused this? I do not understand. Dh always tells me I lead a sheltered life!
nkat I suppose the ability of one group to actually 'own' individuals in another group, with the assumption that the latter were not really human beings started the black/white racism. From what I've read, whites did not like the idea of blacks gaining political power, and especially didn't like children mixing in schools because they 'feared' it would lead to interracial marriages. A part I didn't grasp til I read about some incidents: how the emphasis of 'brotherhood' basically disappeared and the emphasis was on 'power.' It's certainly understandable, but going in the wrong direction. One incident that captures the essence: in 1970, a young veteran was cold-bloodedly murdered by 3 white guys for no reason other than they could. Seems that was one incident where individuals decided brotherhood would not work, and 'payback is a b*tch.' To more recently, the case that sparked 'Black Lives Matter' had nothing to do with police- a screwed-up white individual shot and killed a black teenager for no reason, and similar to the 3 guys mentioned above, didn't suffer any real penalty for committing the murder. To add: nkat: I also was brought up with the approach PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE. PERIOD. And before 1999, every place I'd been, I never encountered anyone who saw it differently.
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Post by highlandannie on Jun 1, 2018 11:37:29 GMT -5
As much as I or any white person tries to put themselves in the shoes of a black person or anyone who experiences bigotry, we can never really understand. Hard as we try, we just can't. We've had white privilege all our lives. We can fight for equality and challenge those who are treating others unfairly. But we simply can not ever 'get it'.
I was raised in neighbourhoods or towns that were 99% white. My schools were all white except for possibly a few Asian students. Everywhere was segregated when I was growing up in the 1950's and 60's.
When I started community college at the age of 28 I was the only white person in one of my classes - sociology. First time in my life I'd ever been a 'minority'. Yes, I was uncomforable. I remember one discussion in class where a student was talking about how horrible whites are - but he turned to me and said 'nothing personal'.
I hate inequality in any form and against any group. It hasn't happened yet, but if I were to see someone verbally abusing someone based on race, religion, etc etc, I would challenge them. I couldn't just sit by and watch.
I enjoy meeting people of different races, cultures, religions. To only be with one race and one culture sounds pretty damn boring to me.
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Post by dragonlady on Jun 1, 2018 13:07:09 GMT -5
Actually for any woman who has been around for quite some time, they will remember some pretty extensive bigotry against women. I was always being told I couldn't do something "because I was a girl". I remember when we were considered financial non entities - couldn't qualify for credit cards, could not purchase a house without a male cosigner, etc. Women who were raped were not taken seriously by the law; in fact it was our fault based on what we wore or where we went and that's just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Even in the black community those who were being discriminated against were in turn discriminating against the women by their male counterparts. Discrimination against women is almost a global phenomenon - practiced by almost every culture to some extent..
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Post by rosa427 on Jun 1, 2018 14:37:04 GMT -5
I planned to say somewhat what tnthomas said, but had to rush out and take care of some errands. I agree with what you said (Thomas), but while I do 'empathize,' I cannot honestly claim to fully understand experiences that were much different from my own. However, those differences do not cause me to dismiss other people's viewpoints as 'not valid,' which is the response I received. And the worst of it: the terms 'we' and 'us' sprinkled throughout, clearly implying that from the poster's viewpoint I'm excluded from those terms.
I will again add that everything I posted came from a) my own experiences in b) locations I've actually been in. I did not say nor imply that any of it covered 'everybody' or 'every place.' Certainly Rosa's experiences differed from mine, as she's stated she's dealt with racism throughout her life, whereas I never encountered it at all anywhere until around 19 years ago (and it wasn't in my current location). Throughout the years prior to then, I lived in a variety of environments with various 'demographics,' and nobody really cared what 'race' or 'ethnicity' anybody was. It was simply not an issue or a concern. Also, I did not mean I do not care what happens to other people- whenever anyone is wronged or harmed, I stand up for them, regardless of whether it's a racial issue, abuse, or something else. If you felt excluded it was because you excluded yourself, the we, us was to include those who did have such experiences. You yourself had not written in a way that would give a clue to you being inclusive till after the fact, you're words came across as an outside observer thus my response however wrong it may have been. As far as my own environment where I grew up, I stated it was inclusive/diverse, though mostly I grew up in middle class neighborhoods. I've live in other areas as well throughout my life, as circumstances sometimes changed. I don't know who you are and often people don't know who or what my racial makeup is until I participate in one of these types of threads and mention it. I avoid making a point of such things till a topic warrants it. I don't wear these issues on my sleeve, but, I don't shy away if I feel I have something to contribute. And sometimes I will put my foot in my mouth as I'm sure I've done here and there in this post and as I will again in the future, I'm human too. As far as my encounters with racism, they weren't something that were an everyday occurrence and frankly most times they were subtle nothing that ruled my life. Most people are genuinely nice to me everywhere I go, it's rare someone doesn't smile at me and vise versa. But, I note what's happening in the world around me and anyone who watches the news can hardly say they aren't aware of the indignities that exist. It takes very little for one to be aware of what's happening out in the world unless one lives outside the US in some little secluded village where people rarely communicate with other communities. The head would really have to be deep in the sand. But then, I guess Mayberry really does exist. I do realize, for some, the personally haven't experienced and just don't get what the fuss is all about since it never touched or touches them and their circle personally, your are very lucky, I hope it never does as I said, it's not a great feeling as others whom went through most of their lives never experiencing it till they did can attest to. There are hundred of such examples. For example: Full story Then you have more and more incidents like this I admit this man should have stayed calm, but still the officer was wrong to bother him for sitting on his mother's porch.
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Post by Sunkist on Jun 1, 2018 15:27:21 GMT -5
I planned to say somewhat what tnthomas said, but had to rush out and take care of some errands. I agree with what you said (Thomas), but while I do 'empathize,' I cannot honestly claim to fully understand experiences that were much different from my own. However, those differences do not cause me to dismiss other people's viewpoints as 'not valid,' which is the response I received. And the worst of it: the terms 'we' and 'us' sprinkled throughout, clearly implying that from the poster's viewpoint I'm excluded from those terms.
I will again add that everything I posted came from a) my own experiences in b) locations I've actually been in. I did not say nor imply that any of it covered 'everybody' or 'every place.' Certainly Rosa's experiences differed from mine, as she's stated she's dealt with racism throughout her life, whereas I never encountered it at all anywhere until around 19 years ago (and it wasn't in my current location). Throughout the years prior to then, I lived in a variety of environments with various 'demographics,' and nobody really cared what 'race' or 'ethnicity' anybody was. It was simply not an issue or a concern. Also, I did not mean I do not care what happens to other people- whenever anyone is wronged or harmed, I stand up for them, regardless of whether it's a racial issue, abuse, or something else. If you felt excluded it was because you excluded yourself, the we, us was to include those who did have such experiences. You yourself had not written in a way that would give a clue to you being inclusive till after the fact, you're words came across as an outside observer thus my response however wrong it may have been. As far as my own environment where I grew up, I stated it was inclusive/diverse, though mostly I grew up in middle class neighborhoods. I've live in other areas as well throughout my life, as circumstances sometimes changed. I don't know who you are and often people don't know who or what my racial makeup is until I participate in one of these types of threads and mention it. I avoid making a point of such things till a topic warrants it. I don't wear these issues on my sleeve, but, I don't shy away if I feel I have something to contribute. And sometimes I will put my foot in my mouth as I'm sure I've done here and there in this post and as I will again in the future, I'm human too. As far as my encounters with racism, they weren't something that were an everyday occurrence and frankly most times they were subtle nothing that ruled my life. Most people are genuinely nice to me everywhere I go, it's rare someone doesn't smile at me and vise versa. But, I note what's happening in the world around me and anyone who watches the news can hardly say they aren't aware of the indignities that exist. It takes very little for one to be aware of what's happening out in the world unless one lives outside the US in some little secluded village where people rarely communicate with other communities. The head would really have to be deep in the sand. But then, I guess Mayberry really does exist. I do realize, for some, the personally haven't experienced and just don't get what the fuss is all about since it never touched or touches them and their circle personally, your are very lucky, I hope it never does as I said, it's not a great feeling as others whom went through most of their lives never experiencing it till they did can attest to.
There are hundred of such examples. For example: Full story Then you have more and more incidents like this I admit this man should have stayed calm, but still the officer was wrong to bother him for sitting on his mother's porch. Re: the bolded part- like I said before, I've been experiencing it personally and witnessing it since 1999. On one side I felt lucky to have not had such experiences before, but that fact meant I was not prepared for it; worse, I didn't know how to prepare my kids for it. And not only my kids, but I'm concerned about the way things are and are heading in terms of what it will mean for my little grandchildren: will other kids not want to be their friends, will they be in danger, etc.
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Post by tnthomas on Jun 1, 2018 15:32:18 GMT -5
Where and when did all this racism begin? In human history I guess it started between the Neanderthals and Homo sapiens. But in more modern times- after the Civil War. Southern whites(primarily) felt 'threatened' over former slaves having an equal status. Like a "class" conflict thing, a one-upsmanship state of mind where some people feel like they are somehow better, superior, more entitled etc. Or, just purely economic competition...thinking that "they" are (or might) take "our" good paying jobs. Sounds familiar? The border wall, "they" taking "our" jobs. ...it goes on and on.
I used to be optimistic about race relations, not so much anyone. The TV advertisements frequently feature interracial couples, a bold statement compared to days past.
But, the realities of being an interracial couple in public is not so relaxed & cheery. The Civil War may be over, but the attitudes still persist...
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Post by rosa427 on Jun 1, 2018 15:41:21 GMT -5
I don't worry only about minorities, but, that is the subject of this thread and why my post are focused on such, this isn't a my bigger than your subject matter, I love and care for all people and see all people as my people. I have good friends of many ethnic and economic backgrounds. I don't relate to people by race I would risk my life for a person based on circumstances not race.
I wasn't always thinking about these matters, but, it really hit me hard after that young boy was killed walking home from the store and was killed by his dad's crazy neighbor. I had wanted my nephew to come visit me and possibly move near, but, ever since, I discouraged him or any of my nephews from visiting me in FL. I truly began to fear for their safety in the state more so that other areas though I know my fear for them shouldn't be limited to FL. I know people think the fear is unwarranted, but, what I see happening to young men, causes me to have some fear nonetheless.
just a few more. You have to watch the last one I threw it in for a laugh as it is so absurd.
I'm sorry, but this just made me laugh it was so rediculous, this isn't just a black thing it's kind of a Floriduh thing. To think I kept moving back there. Gotta love the place
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Post by Sunkist on Jun 1, 2018 15:41:35 GMT -5
Where and when did all this racism begin? In human history I guess it started between the Neanderthals and Homo sapiens. But in more modern times- after the Civil War. Southern whites(primarily) felt 'threatened' over former slaves having an equal status. Like a "class" conflict thing, a one-upsmanship state of mind where some people feel like they are somehow better, superior, more entitled etc. Or, just purely economic competition...thinking that "they" are (or might) take "our" good paying jobs. Sounds familiar? The border wall, "they" taking "our" jobs. ...it goes on and on.
I used to be optimistic about race relations, not so much anyone. The TV advertisements frequently feature interracial couples, a bold statement compared to days past.
But, the realities of being an interracial couple in public is not so relaxed & cheery. The Civil War may be over, but the attitudes still persist...
Re: the first bolded statement- like remember how some were throwing fits over that Cheerios commercial a few years ago? For the life of me I cannot understand that mentality. probably because- second statement- it's not something that was an issue in 'my' past. My high school had interracial couples- nobody thought anything of it. These days- entirely different environments- I'd have a hard time describing how people are treated, it's disgusting. But it's not only 'negative' whites who are at fault- look at jerks like Spike Lee and his remarks on the subject.
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Post by nkat on Jun 1, 2018 15:43:54 GMT -5
Where and when did all this racism begin? In human history I guess it started between the Neanderthals and Homo sapiens. But in more modern times- after the Civil War. Southern whites(primarily) felt 'threatened' over former slaves having an equal status. Like a "class" conflict thing, a one-upsmanship state of mind where some people feel like they are somehow better, superior, more entitled etc. Or, just purely economic competition...thinking that "they" are (or might) take "our" good paying jobs. Sounds familiar? The border wall, "they" taking "our" jobs. ...it goes on and on.
I used to be optimistic about race relations, not so much anyone. The TV advertisements frequently feature interracial couples, a bold statement compared to days past.
But, the realities of being an interracial couple in public is not so relaxed & cheery. The Civil War may be over, but the attitudes still persist...
To be honest, I never heard of Jim Crow. I asked my neighbor, a retired school teacher, and she never heard of it either. Living up North, I never heard of it, until it was mentioned on this board. nkat
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Post by nkat on Jun 1, 2018 15:52:16 GMT -5
Pittsburgh has cracked down on people of all races not using the crosswalk.
If I take a walk here, I do not need a form of identification.
NKat
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Post by rosa427 on Jun 1, 2018 16:28:54 GMT -5
In human history I guess it started between the Neanderthals and Homo sapiens. But in more modern times- after the Civil War. Southern whites(primarily) felt 'threatened' over former slaves having an equal status. Like a "class" conflict thing, a one-upsmanship state of mind where some people feel like they are somehow better, superior, more entitled etc. Or, just purely economic competition...thinking that "they" are (or might) take "our" good paying jobs. Sounds familiar? The border wall, "they" taking "our" jobs. ...it goes on and on.
I used to be optimistic about race relations, not so much anyone. The TV advertisements frequently feature interracial couples, a bold statement compared to days past.
But, the realities of being an interracial couple in public is not so relaxed & cheery. The Civil War may be over, but the attitudes still persist...
To be honest, I never heard of Jim Crow. I asked my neighbor, a retired school teacher, and she never heard of it either. Living up North, I never heard of it, until it was mentioned on this board.
nkat How very lucky you are, I wished I'd never heard of such a thing either, but, I learned of it in school at a very early age. I too grew up in the north, just happen that in the 60's 70's some things were taught in most of the schools I attended in NY. Plus, I watched many shows where Sidney Poiter was the star and he encountered a lot of racism including jim crow. Then there were all those Huckleberry Finn movies, most of the old southern movie show the divisions. Such things were discussed some NY schools and I don't mean just predominantly black schools. I mean things like sex drugs and other matters were discussed also. I'll always have that Beatles song playing in the back of my head when I say drugs and school. They showed us a movie featuring the one where they sing, I get high with the help of my friends. Definitely turned me off from wanting anything to do with drugs. This that was Jr High. I read a lot as a kid, most of the books I was reading at my age, a lot of kids probably didn't read till they were much older. James Baldwin, Langston Huges, W.E.B Dubuis etc. But, I wasn't just reading this type of material, I went through stages of interest like most kids though I was a bit more serious than most. Hmmm, now it's dawning on my as to why when I ran into an old school mate when I was attending HS, she asked if I still talked like that. Naw, I'm still not sure what she meant. Too serious, too proper. Whatever. Sorry for the the tangent, but, anyway I was exposed to info more out of curiosity and educational purposes. But, over the years, there have been many times I too would say I wish people would get over this or that, but, then things would smack me back in the face and reality would set in again that things are not that great for many people or some random incident would happen to me personally and I'd just have to realize racism is as bad as it ever was, just more hidden, well it was till Trump unleashed a new opening for more people to let their feelings come to the forefront.
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Post by rosa427 on Jun 1, 2018 16:34:15 GMT -5
Actually for any woman who has been around for quite some time, they will remember some pretty extensive bigotry against women. I was always being told I couldn't do something "because I was a girl". I remember when we were considered financial non entities - couldn't qualify for credit cards, could not purchase a house without a male cosigner, etc. Women who were raped were not taken seriously by the law; in fact it was our fault based on what we wore or where we went and that's just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Even in the black community those who were being discriminated against were in turn discriminating against the women by their male counterparts. Discrimination against women is almost a global phenomenon - practiced by almost every culture to some extent.. So true dragonlady, women have suffered mercilessly the struggle and the fight for rights has been real for women as well. Men discriminate against women, women discriminate against other women all pretty pervasive and just wrong.
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Post by Sunkist on Jun 1, 2018 17:02:00 GMT -5
To be honest, I never heard of Jim Crow. I asked my neighbor, a retired school teacher, and she never heard of it either. Living up North, I never heard of it, until it was mentioned on this board.
nkat How very lucky you are, I wished I'd never heard of such a thing either, but, I learned of it in school at a very early age. I too grew up in the north, just happen that in the 60's 70's some things were taught in most of the schools I attended in NY. Plus, I watched many shows where Sidney Poiter was the star and he encountered a lot of racism including jim crow. Then there were all those Huckleberry Finn movies, most of the old southern movie show the divisions. Such things were discussed some NY schools and I don't mean just predominantly black schools. I mean things like sex drugs and other matters were discussed also. I'll always have that Beatles song playing in the back of my head when I say drugs and school. They showed us a movie featuring the one where they sing, I get high with the help of my friends. Definitely turned me off from wanting anything to do with drugs. This that was Jr High. I read a lot as a kid, most of the books I was reading at my age, a lot of kids probably didn't read till they were much older. James Baldwin, Langston Huges, W.E.B Dubuis etc. But, I wasn't just reading this type of material, I went through stages of interest like most kids though I was a bit more serious than most. Hmmm, now it's dawning on my as to why when I ran into an old school mate when I was attending HS, she asked if I still talked like that. Naw, I'm still not sure what she meant. Too serious, too proper. Whatever. Sorry for the the tangent, but, anyway I was exposed to info more out of curiosity and educational purposes. But, over the years, there have been many times I too would say I wish people would get over this or that, but, then things would smack me back in the face and reality would set in again that things are not that great for many people or some random incident would happen to me personally and I'd just have to realize racism is as bad as it ever was, just more hidden, well it was till Trump unleashed a new opening for more people to let their feelings come to the forefront. It's possible that what you said at the beginning of this post might 'unravel' some confusion earlier on in this thread. You said you went to school in NY in the 60s & 70s- thinking back to social studies or American history, did your schools teach about the "melting pot"?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 17:25:37 GMT -5
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Post by rosa427 on Jun 1, 2018 17:42:32 GMT -5
How very lucky you are, I wished I'd never heard of such a thing either, but, I learned of it in school at a very early age. I too grew up in the north, just happen that in the 60's 70's some things were taught in most of the schools I attended in NY. Plus, I watched many shows where Sidney Poiter was the star and he encountered a lot of racism including jim crow. Then there were all those Huckleberry Finn movies, most of the old southern movie show the divisions. Such things were discussed some NY schools and I don't mean just predominantly black schools. I mean things like sex drugs and other matters were discussed also. I'll always have that Beatles song playing in the back of my head when I say drugs and school. They showed us a movie featuring the one where they sing, I get high with the help of my friends. Definitely turned me off from wanting anything to do with drugs. This that was Jr High. I read a lot as a kid, most of the books I was reading at my age, a lot of kids probably didn't read till they were much older. James Baldwin, Langston Huges, W.E.B Dubuis etc. But, I wasn't just reading this type of material, I went through stages of interest like most kids though I was a bit more serious than most. Hmmm, now it's dawning on my as to why when I ran into an old school mate when I was attending HS, she asked if I still talked like that. Naw, I'm still not sure what she meant. Too serious, too proper. Whatever. Sorry for the the tangent, but, anyway I was exposed to info more out of curiosity and educational purposes. But, over the years, there have been many times I too would say I wish people would get over this or that, but, then things would smack me back in the face and reality would set in again that things are not that great for many people or some random incident would happen to me personally and I'd just have to realize racism is as bad as it ever was, just more hidden, well it was till Trump unleashed a new opening for more people to let their feelings come to the forefront. It's possible that what you said at the beginning of this post might 'unravel' some confusion earlier on in this thread. You said you went to school in NY in the 60s & 70s- thinking back to social studies or American history, did your schools teach about the "melting pot"? I'm familiar with the terminology, but, haven't heard it used in a while, likely it was talked about in class, but NY was a center for all mixing cultures it's known as a melting pot world wide. The more I think on it, I believe it was the wording was used quite frequently. When I think NY, I think melting pot. Though NY had and has it's racial issues as with any other state in the US. Up north is the one and only place I've ever been called the N word, at least to my face. Happened when I was going to my car leaving a club. I think I told the story here once before. It happened in NJ, a place that still occasionally had a cross burning or three in the late 80's.
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