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Post by nkat on Aug 15, 2022 12:14:49 GMT -5
Wha do you think should be done about the Border? I say close it down and figure out a border policy. Do not tar and feather me but this situation is getting out of hand. Seems like there is a lot of single men sneaking in. I never thought I would say this but we do need a border wall electrified. A wall alone does not cut it. We need legal immigrants but not those sneaking in.
Nkat
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Post by notbob on Aug 15, 2022 14:30:34 GMT -5
You're right that we need a fair and consistent immigration policy. I disagree however about an electrified fence, if for no other reason than like any fence or wall, it messes with patterns of wildlife. We need migrant workers and virtually all who cross are simply looking for jobs - jobs US workers not only don't want but can't match migrant production. I lived in Santa Rosa, CA for a while and came to know a couple of foremen who ran local vineyards. They told me that overall, US workers can't keep up with migrants.
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Post by tnthomas on Aug 15, 2022 15:22:17 GMT -5
Seems like there is a lot of single men sneaking in. It's been like that since at least the '60s, they come here, work and send home money to their family in Mexico. They used to be able to come and work legally, until the Bracero Program was cancelled. I'm not sure what they actually do in Congress, but solving problems doesn't seem to be on the agenda....ever.
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Post by oldmontana on Aug 18, 2022 16:41:04 GMT -5
Wha do you think should be done about the Border? I say close it down and figure out a border policy. Do not tar and feather me but this situation is getting out of hand. Seems like there is a lot of single men sneaking in. I never thought I would say this but we do need a border wall electrified. A wall alone does not cut it. We need legal immigrants but not those sneaking in. Nkat How many migrants died in 2021? With 1,238 migrant deaths and disappearances recorded, 2021 was the year with the highest number of lives lost in the Americas since 2014, when the Missing Migrants Project (MMP) began documenting migrant deaths.Jul 1, 2022 Close the border. Instead of hiring 87,000 IRS Agents spend about half that money on border potection, like more Border Agents.
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Post by tnthomas on Aug 18, 2022 17:37:56 GMT -5
Closing the border would result in a huge lose of commercial revenue for both the U.S. and Mexico- not gonna happen, just to please some idealogues.
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Post by nkat on Aug 19, 2022 13:30:33 GMT -5
Closing the border would result in a huge lose of commercial revenue for both the U.S. and Mexico- not gonna happen, just to please some idealogues. Well something has to be done. Leave the portion of the border for trade open and monitor it closely. nkat
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Post by notbob on Aug 19, 2022 14:14:15 GMT -5
Closing the border would result in a huge lose of commercial revenue for both the U.S. and Mexico- not gonna happen, just to please some idealogues. Well something has to be done. Leave the portion of the border for trade open and monitor it closely. nkat No one is especially concerned about trade. Trade benefits both countries, but so would a reasonable and consistent immigration policy that would allow migrant workers to travel back and forth between countries to do work US workers can't or won't do. Without migrant workers, we would undoubtedly pay a lot more for our produce, and we'd pay a lot more for other jobs those workers do as well. Virtually all of those workers are polite and respectful people. Of course, there are a handful of "bad apples," but show me any segment of any population in the world that doesn't have a handful of bad apples.
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Post by nkat on Aug 19, 2022 16:44:20 GMT -5
I heard on CNN that one senator proposed that money being sent out of the country be taxed to try and stop the influx of immigrants.
BTW we do need immigrants but not their entire country.
I did forget about the animals on the electric fence, they do not use ladders to get over it.
Nkat
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Post by notbob on Aug 20, 2022 9:24:14 GMT -5
BTW we do need immigrants but not their entire country. When it comes to migrant workers, it's a relative handful of people coming primarily from Mexico. It's not their "entire country." Obviously, that's a gross exaggeration. In regard to other immigrants, imagine living in a country where you can't express your thoughts for fear of imprisonment, torture, rape, or death, unless your thoughts are in line with an authoritarian government. Or...imagine living in a country where not only is your government against you, but rebels within the country are also against you. People fleeing those types of governments and conflicts are seeking asylum, which they have every right to do. On the plaque on our statue of liberty: "Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. “Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” Are these words meaningless - just words we have no intention to honor? For me, those words are part of the foundation of this country, similar to John Hossack's quote: "No man is free until all men are free." Or, should we simply throw compassion out of the window? Personally, I much prefer the position taken by the statue itself.
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Post by tnthomas on Aug 20, 2022 10:40:46 GMT -5
I heard on CNN that one senator proposed that money being sent out of the country be taxed to try and stop the influx of immigrants. An illegal immigrant that's lucky enough to be hired by an honest employer will have taxes withheld on his wages like everyone else, so that money sent out of the country is already taxed. A common practice with not-so-honest employers is to withhold the usual taxes on an immigrant's wages, but instead of forwarding that money to state & IRS they keep it. They know that because of an immigrant's illegal status it's unlikely the immigrant will file for unemployment or disability.
Some immigrants just get paid "under the table", a lower wage but not taxed. Illegal of course, thank you very much dishonest employers...that's the money that is going out of the country without being taxed.
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Post by birdgal on Aug 20, 2022 11:10:17 GMT -5
Would the senator volunteer to do the job that person does?
Unless you're a Native American you are probably a decendant of an immigrant. The people who grow and pick your food, mow your lawn, wash dishes in your favorite restaurant, pump gas into your tank, put food on shelves in your grocery store, pick up your trash, etc.
Would you like to do their job? Why not volunteer or apply for the job? If enough "real" Americans did those jobs we wouldn't need others to do it for us would we?
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
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Post by nkat on Aug 20, 2022 13:05:02 GMT -5
BTW we do need immigrants but not their entire country. When it comes to migrant workers, it's a relative handful of people coming primarily from Mexico. It's not their "entire country." Obviously, that's a gross exaggeration. In regard to other immigrants, imagine living in a country where you can't express your thoughts for fear of imprisonment, torture, rape, or death, unless your thoughts are in line with an authoritarian government. Or...imagine living in a country where not only is your government against you, but rebels within the country are also against you. People fleeing those types of governments and conflicts are seeking asylum, which they have every right to do. On the plaque on our statue of liberty: "Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. “Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” Are these words meaningless - just words we have no intention to honor? For me, those words are part of the foundation of this country, similar to John Hossack's quote: "No man is free until all men are free." Or, should we simply throw compassion out of the window? Personally, I much prefer the position taken by the statue itself. So what is the solution?
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Post by notbob on Aug 20, 2022 13:35:06 GMT -5
nkat, I don't have the solution. I'm not an expert on the matter. All I know is that we have immigrants fleeing horrific conditions in their native countries and coming to the US seeking asylum, which they have a right to do. I also know how necessary migrant workers are to our economy, and I know from some limited experience, that virtually all of them come here to make "good money" to send or take home to their families. In my opinion, we must find ways to make allowances for that.
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Post by tnthomas on Aug 20, 2022 14:09:12 GMT -5
For starters- people need to demand that their representatives DO what they are paid for, to work on and enact legislation that benefits the nation. Immigration reform is long overdue, there's just no excuse for it. Maybe going back to a system that actually worked,like the Bracero system mentioned earlier. Allow guest workers to come in legally, work then return home back across the border. That worked.
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Post by nkat on Aug 20, 2022 15:31:20 GMT -5
For starters- people need to demand that their representatives DO what they are paid for, to work on and enact legislation that benefits the nation. Immigration reform is long overdue, there's just no excuse for it. Maybe going back to a system that actually worked,like the Bracero system mentioned earlier. Allow guest workers to come in legally, work then return home back across the border. That worked. I thought they were still doing that. See how I paid attention to that. nkat
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