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Post by Warrigal on Jun 8, 2020 10:29:49 GMT -5
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Post by Kady on Jun 8, 2020 12:11:20 GMT -5
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Post by tnthomas on Jun 8, 2020 16:55:03 GMT -5
I worry about any church that talks about Satan. My church never does. I was raised in the Lutheran church (my grandfather was a Lutheran minister). I recall references to Satan(the Devil) and always assumed that was real. By adulthood however, I pretty much settled with the view that 'the devil' was within the human heart/mind. I believe that there is a God, that Creation is a fact, as is Evolution. No conflict there. in my view. I don't believe God has a single gender, that the references to "He" and "Him" were just extensions of the male dominated societies in ancient times.
I do believe that God knows our heart. I believe that there are some kind of super-natural beings, guardian angels looking after our best interests. Just a belief, perhaps wishful thinking. <shrugs>
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2020 8:01:20 GMT -5
The nuns used to tell us we would have all the answers when we get to Heaven.
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Post by Warrigal on Jun 13, 2020 18:44:05 GMT -5
The nuns used to tell us we would have all the answers when we get to Heaven. There is a scriptural basis for that answer, found I believe in Corinthians Ch 13, but it is also a evasion/deflection to change the subject. Jesus focussed on how we should live in the here and now and how we should treat each other. It is wasted time and energy to obsess about what happens after we die. Or the end of the world. Today is the day that matters and every today we are given is an opportunity to do good. That is what the children need to learn.
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Post by birdgal on Jun 14, 2020 15:12:11 GMT -5
There is a reason our wise Founding Fathers demanded state and church do not in any way shape or form become one.
Religion and politics is a bad, dangerous, and deadly combo. Dictators know this, love this, and depend on this to divide people and take over countries.
One more time with feeling. Keep your religion out of my politics and I'll keep my politics out of your religion!
Why do you think trump stands there with a bible in his hand? He knows that is all he has to do to get the believers all worked up. Hitler did the same damn thing. He's using them and they are so damn stupid they don't see it, Yes, I said stupid. Their God gave them a brain and they choose not to use it. They choose to not think or reason. It's blasphemy plain and simple.
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Post by birdgal on Jun 14, 2020 15:30:59 GMT -5
LOL! When we get to heaven? Well, if that doesn't shut a child up nothing will. It's difficult for some people to say, "I don't know." What a cop out. But, then again it is the church. That doesn't surprise me at all. If I were a child that answer would not have been acceptable to me.
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Post by Warrigal on Jun 14, 2020 20:25:58 GMT -5
As a Sunday school teacher I try very hard not to implant or nourish anything in the minds of the children that will need to be removed later. Unnecessary fears are in this category. So are unsupportable ideas like every word and story contained in the scriptures is literally true. Children often misinterpret what their teachers say to them and later on they feel they have been lied to.
To give an example, in the mid fifties we were introduced to the atomic theory according to the Dalton model. "Atoms are indivisible units of matter". A year later, after learning a good deal of elementary chemistry we were ready for some refinement and we moved on to subatomic particles and later still to the idea of nuclear fission and fusion and quantum states. It isn't a cop out to begin simply and refine later. It is good pedagogy.
I remember some of us challenging out teacher and accusing her of lying to us about the indivisibility of the atom. I have never forgotten her response. "Sufficient unto the day was the accuracy thereto", she said. Even then I understood that when teaching the young it is important to match the lesson to the cognitive and emotional development of the learner.
Little children should not be made fearful by talk of Hell, Satan or demons. The subject should never arise. From the age of ten onwards they can begin to understand these ideas can be discussed as attempts to explain things that are basically inexplicable - the WHY questions that humanity has struggled with since we first walked upright. Most of these questions are embedded in story telling methods including myths, art, dance and music. And in religion. They cannot be avoided but very young children should never be overburdened with them.
Heaven is something else. Some version of this idea is embedded in most cultures. It is a vision of hope that has sustained many people through times of utter wretchedness. It represents release from pain and suffering. It comforts little children to hear that Grandma, Daddy, the dead pet dog etc is now happy in some other place. It offers justice, reward for goodness and retribution for injustice. Even if all of the churches stopped talking about heaven, the idea would not go away. I'm not even sure that it should and I don't feel entitled to tell little children that there is no heaven when they ask the question. For older students I do say, "I don't know" and encourage discussion and debate about why the three tiered concept of the universe, Earth, Heaven and Hell, is a nonsense if taken literally. Then we turn our minds to what to do about injustice in the here and now.
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