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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 9:18:27 GMT -5
www.nytimes.com/2018/08/14/us/catholic-priests-pennsylvania-church-jury.htmlThe above article and others I have read recently are almost unbelievable, but are true. When I was 20 years old, after being raised Catholic and attending 12 straight years of Catholic schools, I was able to turn my back on the church. For quite a while, I fought off lingering guilt feeling and the fear of dying and going straight to hell. And that was way before I even could imagine anything about priest pedophiles. Over the years since "I got away" and was considered excommunicated, I have observed the unfair treatment by the Catholic Church of any person who did not fit their mold of a true Catholic. It is a church dominated by men for men. Paternalistic to the extreme! In the last 2 decades I have come to the realization that organized religion is evil. After the most recent scandal regarding predatory priests in PA, I KNOW it is evil. How can Catholics go to Mass now and listen to a priest up on the altar tell them how to live? God help us all.
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Post by nkat on Aug 27, 2018 13:34:50 GMT -5
Ruby the priest is not telling you how to live, the Bible is. The religion is not flawed, the people running the Church are.
nkat
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Post by birdgal on Aug 30, 2018 22:29:58 GMT -5
In the last 2 decades I have come to the realization that organized religion is evil. After the most recent scandal regarding predatory priests in PA, I KNOW it is evil. How can Catholics go to Mass now and listen to a priest up on the altar tell them how to live? I was also raised a Catholic but went to a public school. However, when any of us kids misbehaved we were threatened with being enrolled in Catholic school. Shudder. There was no greater punishment. lol. NKat, but isn't the priest supposed to be the mouthpiece of God? If we're not supposed to listen to him why not have a Bible study in your own home? Invite a few people over, have them bring their Bible, and sit around and read a few chapters and then discuss like other book clubs. I've gone to many Bible studies back in the day. Even lead a few. No middle man needed. Especially a perverted middle man. You can also break bread and drink wine without the middle man. Didn't Jesus say, "Do this to remember me?" Wasn't he telling his followers to eat and drink and hang out together and not to forget Him or the things He taught them? Seems simple enough, right? No building needed either. "When two or three of you are gathered together in my name I am there." Seems simple enough. lol. Imagine how many hungry people could be fed, how many homeless people could have a home and some new clean clothing if all that gold was sold. I'm sure there's some rich guy or gal out there that would be interested in buying a hunk or two of gold from the church. All they have to do is ask. "Ye have not because ye ask not." lol.
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Post by nkat on Aug 30, 2018 22:47:28 GMT -5
In the last 2 decades I have come to the realization that organized religion is evil. After the most recent scandal regarding predatory priests in PA, I KNOW it is evil. How can Catholics go to Mass now and listen to a priest up on the altar tell them how to live? I was also raised a Catholic but went to a public school. However, when any of us kids misbehaved we were threatened with being enrolled in Catholic school. Shudder. There was no greater punishment. lol. NKat, but isn't the priest supposed to be the mouthpiece of God? If we're not supposed to listen to him why not have a Bible study in your own home? Invite a few people over, have them bring their Bible, and sit around and read a few chapters and then discuss like other book clubs. I've gone to many Bible studies back in the day. Even lead a few. No middle man needed. Especially a perverted middle man. You can also break bread and drink wine without the middle man. Didn't Jesus say, "Do this to remember me?" Wasn't he telling his followers to eat and drink and hang out together and not to forget Him or the things He taught them? Seems simple enough, right? No building needed either. "When two or three of you are gathered together in my name I am there." Seems simple enough. lol. Imagine how many hungry people could be fed, how many homeless people could have a home and a good meal or two, or more, if all that gold was sold. I'm sure there's some rich guy or gal out there that would be interested in buying a hunk or two of gold from the church. I am a lapsed Catholic. Lol. You sound more like one then I am! Our priests always did sermons based on the Bible. Jesus spoke in parables. No way could I lead a Bible study, I'll leave that to the theologians. I can imagine what I would come up with! nkat
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Post by birdgal on Aug 31, 2018 17:45:58 GMT -5
No way could I lead a Bible study, Sure you could. It's easy. You just get a study guide and it walks you through it. lol. When I was in the Protestant Church regular ordinary people were encouraged to read and study the Bible and discuss what they believed it said. Or, how it spoke to them. Of course not everyone was in agreement. But, I imagine that was the same with the disciples. They were regular guys who came from different backgrounds and saw the world through their own eyes. Making the Word available to all the people was one of Martin Luther's ideas. He believed the Word was the Word for everyone so why not translate it into the language of all the people. Well, almost all. NKat, I am a lapsed Catholic. That's Lapsed with a Capitol L. It's that noticeable? lol.
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Post by highlandannie on Sept 1, 2018 1:37:09 GMT -5
I was raised Catholic but gave up on it as a teen. My sister is still a devout Catholic, one brother is atheist, the other I think only goes to mass when he visits my sister in another state. I did not raise my sons as Catholics and never had them baptized. I told them what people believe and that if they wanted to go to any certain churches or a synagouge etc that I would take them. The oldest decided to go to church with our Baptist neighbour and did get baptized.
My sister lives in hope that my atheist brother and I will come back to the church. Pffft. She insists that the only way people can learn to be good people is to have a church or some religion tell them to. She has trouble figuring out how my brother who is such a good person couldn't believe in a god.
My husband is Catholic and doesn't always go to mass. He says it's okay that he doesn't believe everything the church teaches or the rules of the Vatican. He does go to mass every Sunday while we are in Thailand in the winters for 3 months and I join him. I enjoy the music there - very upbeat. And we've met some nice people there and I really like the priest. He's a very sweet Thai man and his sermons are okay.
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Post by birdgal on Sept 1, 2018 19:09:07 GMT -5
She has trouble figuring out how my brother who is such a good person couldn't believe in a god. Hmm. Perhaps that IS why he's such a good person. He just is. Period. He doesn't have to follow any strict rules or regulations of an organized religion. He doesn't have to try to convert others to his beliefs or argue with them and try to prove them wrong. He doesn't have to defend his beliefs to others. He's not being a good guy to avoid punishment in the after life. He's just a really good guy. Just because. History has taught us how many horrible things have been done to innocent people in the name of religion. Many far right fundagelicals are judgmental, obnoxious, pious, creepy, and frankly mean spirited people. Not all. But many. I'm 73. I had a best friend that I've known since I was 17. I was her maid of honor at her wedding and god parent to her first born. When she became a born again Christian she became one big obnoxious PITA. She'd constantly badger me to change my life, to turn my life over to her god, to "act as if" I was someone I was not. She was relentless till the day she died. She never gave up trying to change me. I begged and pleaded with her to leave me the hell alone. I asked her why she wouldn't stop already. She said she wanted me to be in Heaven with her. I told her if she was in Heaven I'd prefer Hell! Religion isn't a bridge. It's a solid friggin' wall! The only way people can learn to be good people is to, wait for it, just be a good person!
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Post by highlandannie on Sept 2, 2018 1:42:54 GMT -5
She has trouble figuring out how my brother who is such a good person couldn't believe in a god. Hmm. Perhaps that IS why he's such a good person. He just is. Period. He doesn't have to follow any strict rules or regulations of an organized religion. He doesn't have to try to convert others to his beliefs or argue with them and try to prove them wrong. He doesn't have to defend his beliefs to others. He's not being a good guy to avoid punishment in the after life. He's just a really good guy. Just because. History has taught us how many horrible things have been done to innocent people in the name of religion. Many far right fundagelicals are judgmental, obnoxious, pious, creepy, and frankly mean spirited people. Not all. But many. I'm 73. I had a best friend that I've known since I was 17. I was her maid of honor at her wedding and god parent to her first born. When she became a born again Christian she became one big obnoxious PITA. She'd constantly badger me to change my life, to turn my life over to her god, to "act as if" I was someone I was not. She was relentless till the day she died. She never gave up trying to change me. I begged and pleaded with her to leave me the hell alone. I asked her why she wouldn't stop already. She said she wanted me to be in Heaven with her. I told her if she was in Heaven I'd prefer Hell! Religion isn't a bridge. It's a solid friggin' wall! The only way people can learn to be good people is to, wait for it, just be a good person! It's like banging my head against a brick wall trying to tell my sister this. She is dead certain that you need religion to tell what is good and what is bad. Arrrgghhh.
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Post by birdgal on Sept 2, 2018 12:50:12 GMT -5
She is dead certain that you need religion to tell what is good and what is bad. Maybe she does. That doesn't mean everyone else does. Your bro is a good guy. Actually, he sounds like more of a decent person that your sister. His good works come from his heart. He's not doing good things to get to heaven with a load of stars on his crown. He does good things because it's the right thing to do. Is there anyone on this board who wasn't taught to be kind to others? Not to kill anybody or make fun of people? To be kind to animals. To share. My Mom would tell us kids if we can't say anything nice - don't say anything at all. Talk about an impossible task! lol. We all know right from wrong. Even children too young to have religion know what "NO!" means. Maybe you'd like to remind your sister about all the "good" the Crusades did the next time she tells you how much good the church has done. Or, pedophile priests. Actually, it's not even worth it. She is who she is and she ain't gonna change. lol. I just wish people like her would feel the same about others. Atheist don't go around pestering people to convert. They're decent people trying their best to get along in the world and lend a helping hand when it's needed just because they can. I'm an Atheist and I've been told I'm okay. Well, most of the time. lol.
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Post by highlandannie on Sept 2, 2018 12:55:55 GMT -5
She is dead certain that you need religion to tell what is good and what is bad. Maybe she does. That doesn't mean everyone else does. Your bro is a good guy. Actually, he sounds like more of a decent person that your sister. His good works come from his heart. He's not doing good things to get to heaven with a load of stars on his crown. He does good things because it's the right thing to do. Is there anyone on this board who wasn't taught to be kind to others? Not to kill anybody or make fun of people? To be kind to animals. To share. My Mom would tell us kids if we can't say anything nice - don't say anything at all. Talk about an impossible task! lol. We all know right from wrong. Even children too young to have religion know what "NO!" means. Maybe you'd like to remind your sister about all the "good" the Crusades did the next time she tells you how much good the church has done. Or, pedophile priests. Actually, it's not even worth it. She is who she is and she ain't gonna change. lol. I just wish people like her would feel the same about others. Atheist don't go around pestering people to convert. They're decent people trying their best to get along in the world and lend a helping hand when it's needed just because they can. I'm an Atheist and I've been told I'm okay. Well, most of the time. lol. Agree. But my sister insists the reason my brother is such a good person is because he was taught to be good by being raised a catholic. Sigh. I give up. Good thing we live in different countries!
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Post by nkat on Sept 2, 2018 14:53:53 GMT -5
I never understood this born again thing. Seems to have started from a line in the Bible taken out of contex. I was born once and believe in a creator and was baptised by water. The paragraph that born again was taken from. Most born agains that I know seem to have been rotten people before. Maybe their mothers did not teach them to be a kind, generous, good person in life.
nkat
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Post by birdgal on Oct 10, 2018 13:35:55 GMT -5
There's another teeny-weeny detail that attracts people to be born again. The verse goes something like this - "Unless a man is born again he can not enter the kingdom of Heaven." Therefore, it's all about going to heaven and not burning in hell. Not about spreading Good News or doing good works or loving your neighbor, but covering your butt. Well, for mankind anyway. It doesn't say anything about women so I guess women were born right the first time and you have it right, NKat. lol.
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Post by smitty45 on Oct 10, 2018 15:50:18 GMT -5
I wasn't raised Catholic. As a toddler I went to a Presbyterian church, then as a kid went to a Protestant church, then a few years later went to a Lutheran church.. Never Baptized to any. Not being Catholic I really can't weigh in.
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Post by rebecca2013 on Oct 11, 2018 21:44:42 GMT -5
Born and raised Catholic but in my country... we didn't have these disgusting sexual predators like we do here in United States at least when I was growing up, we never heard of such there.... I still have faith even if I do not agree with the Church's handling of these sick and twisted clergy....
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Post by joymarty on Dec 31, 2019 23:41:39 GMT -5
Born and raised Catholic but in my country... we didn't have these disgusting sexual predators like we do here in United States at least when I was growing up, we never heard of such there.... I still have faith even if I do not agree with the Church's handling of these sick and twisted clergy.... I can't help but believe there are frustrated priests in all countries taking their frustrations out on the alter boys and other boys and other priests. No country I don't believe is exempt. Celabecy is not normal.
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